Saturday, October 08, 2005

Sex

At what age should we teach children about sex? I am just curious to see what peoples thoughts are on this. Also, once you have stated your opinion, described how it was A) viewed in your household and B) how you learned about it.

My Answer: I do not think kids should ever be hidden or sheltered from sex. The ideas that it is disgusting or wrong are plain wrong themselves. I think if we did away with hiding sex, being ashamed of having sex and talking about sex, sexual crimes would decrease. There would be less rape, less sexually transmitted disease and such. Children should not be taught bogus names for their body parts. Nobody calls a kids arms their wiggle sticks or doodle dads. If you teach a kid early what all the parts are, how they work, why they work and that it is ok and better yet fun, you will have a more sexually secure adult.

Sex was never really talked about in my household. I am sure I received the typical talk after I had learned everything from magazines and HBO.

Basically I am just shooting here for an answer to the original question of what age you feel kids should learn about sex. Everyone who comments here is intelligent and I am curious what you will be doing with your children.

22 Comments:

Anonymous baltimore said...

i don't necesarily think that sex should be brought up point blank by parents. if there is an attitude of openness in the household and the child trusts his/her parents then "the sex talk" will come when the child is ready. sex isn't the only thing that should be talked about, just one of many. i think it less about sex and more about a child feeling comfortable enough talking to his/her parents about anything. i should point out that i do not have kids and more than likely have no idea what in the hell i am talking about.

1:38 PM  
Blogger Bleach n Sheets said...

Also don't forget the part about your history. When it was discussed and how it was viewed in your household. If you feel comfortable sharing this.

6:10 PM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

me and wife have talked about this, given that we are expecting a girl, and it scares me to death with the pressures that there are on pre-teens and teens to have sex these days. but, when we talk, we basically come up with no real plan. i think last time we talked about it, we thought we would talk to her when she is a pre-teen, and try to help guide her into good moral discisions, which are mostly a function of other influences, anyway (ie: relationship with dad, behavior, friends, etc.). I feel similiar to what baltimore said in this regard, in terms of open comminication.

I don't want my teenage daugheter having sex bleach, I don't give a fuck what you say. you fucking pervert. the first thing i will teach her is how to indentify sociopaths like you.

I never got the sex talk but my parents were open to talking about anything.

8:28 AM  
Blogger Bleach n Sheets said...

By the time you have the sex talk with your daughter she will having the talk with her sluty grandkids.

10:35 AM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

what? what is that supposed to mean? i said i was going to have a talk with my kids.

i would also like to add that all boyfriends are fair game to me and a wackin' stick. i already have wife's approval.

when i think of how a father should be i try to think of Jeff. I think that you should do the same.

btw, we got new furniture, you will have to take a test-sit/lay before my wife's water breaks all over it.

4:18 PM  
Blogger Bleach n Sheets said...

****** Bonked his head dude

5:08 PM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

YES!

6:37 PM  
Blogger Tara said...

I reckon a policy of openness is best. These subjects usually come up in a natural way when kids are pretty little, and I think people should just act normal and matter-of-fact when it does, not all shocked and embarrassed. I don't remember ever talking about it in my family, but I also don't remember ever not knowing about it.

7:57 AM  
Anonymous baltimore said...

yeah, i never got the "talk", per se. of course i learned everything about sex that i needed to know from catholic school.

12:02 PM  
Anonymous Mike said...

I got a talk when I was way too young to understand. I remember my dad telling me that the boy pees inside the women. Three years later, I still don't quite understand. What does the vagina look like?

Actually I also got ambushed by my dad on a hiking trip where he and I shared a tent. There was no escape from the embarrassment of that talk. If I only had the same survival skills back then as now, I could have run off into the woods. I guess it was good in the end because I haven't got any women pregnant yet.

2:11 PM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

see what happens when you talk about sex too early bleach? you end up like mike.

no one wants that for their children :)

7:50 AM  
Anonymous scuba steve said...

i say be open with your kids, and they'll ask questions when they're ready. i remember when i was a kid, maybe 7 or 8, and a high schooler on the bus called somebody a dildo. i didn't know what that was, so i axed my mom. she told me what it was, and i had no idea why anyone would want a rubber penis. anyway, they answered questions when i asked them. i think that's about the best way to go, and i agree with not making up stupid names for body parts

10:36 AM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

scuba steve, you are clearly a wiggle stick.

5:08 PM  
Anonymous scuba steve said...

fooiemcgoo, i'm not sure if that was a slam or a complement, so i say, thanks, and fuck you :D

2:24 PM  
Blogger melissa said...

I would have to agree that being open about sex is key. and fooiemagoo we have talked about this a thousand times! :) however, being too open up front and cavalier about the whole sex issue could lead to (confusion if too young as mike illustrated) and a cavalier attitude when it comes to sex for that child. it should always be handled as a special topic, because it is! it all starts with teaching your child to respect themselves (especially important for girl children with all the shitty slutty messages around today). if they don't respect themselves, they won't respect sex, and if they don't respect sex then they will have it all the time carelessly to prove something to someone whatever or whoever that may be. so, my thoughts, yes, be open and honest but also convey that sex IS a serious topic these days with all the risks that come with it. and about the silly words? if the child is highly intelligent go for it! use the correct terms, but mostly for young'ns it's easier to go with pee pee or private. saying it is private at such a young age is good too because they know (with just the name of it) it should not be touched or fondled in public by him/herself, nor should it be touched by anyone else for that matter. having the talk aobut sharing if someone does touch THEIR private should be THE FIRST coversation to have! (and having the talk that touching one's own private is okay as long as it is in privacy) it's the easiest for them to comprehend. too young of a child doesn't really get "sex" or sexual terms because they don't need to. they are not worried about impressing other sex etc. okay, i could write a lot about this. love to talk more about it with ya, bleach n sheets. i don't even know if you are still looking at this posting :)

11:55 AM  
Blogger melissa said...

wow, i wrote a lot. i have a lot of strong opinions regarding this issue, i guess :) one important point i forgot, if you are the parent of a boy child you should teach at a very young age to respect women/girls. otherwise you make for a manwhore which is equally as sad as girlwhore :( sadly, most of the shit that kids learn is from their peers! so if their friends suck, lay down the law! :)

11:58 AM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

I didn't want to argue with you at first, but melissa broke the floodgates so i will.

I don't see what are you basing alot of your ideas on...

"If you teach a kid early what all the parts are, how they work, why they work and that it is ok and better yet fun, you will have a more sexually secure adult."

First of all, I am not sure what you mean by "sexually secure". To me a "sexually secure" person who knows what they want sexually, and develops relationships (without comprimising their own self-worth) with parners based on their similar wants. I guess I don't see the connection between that and presenting sex to a child at an way-too-early age.

I agree that kids should know their body parts, but teaching that their gentals are "fun parts"? that sounds like something a pediofile would say. do we need to teach kids this? doesn't puberty (hormones) help kids figure out that their gentals are fun parts? it didn't take me long at that age. at that time, i think a healthy discussion about sex's place is warrentted.

i think we can teach kids the role of sex in culture at the proper age. "kids" are too young to understand this kind of thing. and simply not hiding it from them is too complicated for them. that is like explaining taxes to them when they are too young. they are too young to understand it, its signifigance, and they don't care. that is why they should learn about it when they are of the age when they start having those kinds of feelings, and that is in their (pre)teens. and at that point you help guide them to make desicions that are in sync with the family's moral guidelines. kids need help like this.


"I do not think kids should ever be hidden or sheltered from sex. The ideas that it is disgusting or wrong are plain wrong themselves. I think if we did away with hiding sex, being ashamed of having sex and talking about sex, sexual crimes would decrease."

Again I agree that stating that sex is "wrong" is unhealthy. But you are painting this picuture that we should let our kids being in the room while we are doing it. that is a one-way ticket for a child to grow uip and rape everyhing not nailed down. maybe that is not what you meant, but at the least you are suggesting that it be an open topic to discuss in front of them, as if we were talkign about football. I, for one, am not going to tell my sons this "awesome technique" I used on their mother last night and trade high-fives. Like melissa said, sex is a special thing and it should continue to be this way.

I would venture to say that most sexual crimes are not due to the perpatrator feeling as of shame when it comes to sex, but was sexually abused by someone with power over them. ie: priest, uncle, teacher etc. or they simply came from a verbally or phyically abusive household. the common theme is power and violence over/to someone else, which is an inharited mindstate that they got from their abuser. Sex being less-taboo in their houshold won't change this. if anything, it will just make that person socially unaccepted.

"There would be less rape, less sexually transmitted disease and such."

your ideas make me think that sex with mulitple partners would increase, which would make the proliferation of sexually transmitted diseases increase.

12:59 PM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

oh,
scuba steve, it was a slam i guess, but i was just kidding. i wanted to say wiggle-stick.

1:03 PM  
Blogger Bleach n Sheets said...

I think that a lot of your views are shared by the jaority of people today. This way is obviously not working. A woman is raped every 60 seconds or some shit. I don't think most of these people were abused, I think a lot of them are drunk college boys.

I don't really have time to address all the points but I think you should look at the cultures that are extrememly open about sex and compare their sexual crime rates to ours. Check out the Netherlands or virtually any country but ours.

And this statement

"I agree that kids should know their body parts, but teaching that their gentals are "fun parts"? that sounds like something a pediofile would say. do we need to teach kids this?"

If serious, is exactly the views of being ashamed I am talking about. Why not teach them they are fun parts. Instead of having kids run around with conflicting ideas about sex when it happens. The way it is now, kids know it is fun but feel guilty about doing something wrong. Tell them it is fun from the get go.

2:11 PM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

disclaimer: i don't claim to know anything about rape or child development.

pointing out that my views are shared by the majority of the public does not invalidate them.

I agree that something should be done to change violence and sexual crimes, but not only do I think that exposing children to sex at an early age will not help, it will actually worsen sexual crime rates.

check this out:

"Risk factors for perpetrating sexual violence include: early sexual experience (both forced and voluntary),6 adherence by men to sex role stereotyping,7,8 negative attitudes of men towards women,6,9,,10,11,12, alcohol consumption,8,13 acceptance of rape myths by men.8,9,12,14,15"

from this website:
http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm


did you see the "early sexual experince" part?


your statement:
"If serious, is exactly the views of being ashamed I am talking about. Why not teach them they are fun parts. Instead of having kids run around with conflicting ideas about sex when it happens. The way it is now, kids know it is fun but feel guilty about doing something wrong. Tell them it is fun from the get go."

would surely lead to early sexual expereinces.


I also found this on the same website:

"About half of all rape victims are in the lowest third of income distribution; half are in the upper two-thirds. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.) "

I would assume that at least 90% of college kids are not in the lower 1/3 of income. so that would make college kids not doing the majority of raping.

also, there is a discinction between taking something serious and being ashamed of it. those are intirely different things. there are serious emotions realted to sex, serious health consiquences to having unsafe sex(or safe!), serious cultural signifigance to having sex with people (ie: family members, way to many people, other peoples spouses, other people's girlfriends.) babys happen when sex works out a certain way, that is serious shit.

here is a list of individual risk factors that influence rapers.
[see:http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/svfacts.htm]

Alcohol and drug use
Coercive sexual fantasies*
Impulsive and antisocial tendencies*
Preference for impersonal sex
Hostility towards women
Hypermasculinity
Childhood history of sexual and physical abuse*
Witnessed family violence as a child*

i starred the ones that i cited as reasons for rape. notice they didn't list "ashmed of sex".

also, although i haven't tried to find it, i am sure that the united states is definatly does not have the highest reported rapes per cap.

my guess is that third world countries would have people raping each other like madness. seeing many non-developed countries (such as middle-east countries) view women as little more that animals, plus according to my above stat, there is a negitive coorlation with rape and wealth.
these statments from the CDC kinda illistrates my point:

Community Factors:

Lack of employment opportunities
Lack of institutional support from police and judicial system
General tolerance of sexual assault within the community
Settings that support sexual violence
Weak community sanctions against sexual violence perpetrators

Societal Factors:

Poverty
Societal norms that support sexual violence
Societal norms that support male superiority and sexual entitlement
Societal norms that maintain women’s inferiority and sexual submissiveness
Weak laws and policies related to gender equity
High tolerance levels of crime and other forms of violence


also, at some point, i wish you would point out that i have a unhealthy sexual position. that would really make me shut-up.

okay, i can't talk about this anymore. i need to get some stuff done. we'll discuss this next weekend, but feel free to reply and we'll pick up from there.

3:16 PM  
Blogger melissa said...

WOW Fooie!
You did your homework! Bleach n sheets, I totally see where you are coming from, but I have to side iwth Tim on this one if you are stating that our culture is why sex is so f'ed up because we are all so taboo and hush hush ashamed about sex than. The culture thing is a good point that Tim brings up because in many other cultures women have no say when it comes to sex and therefore sex does not ever get reported as rape because there is no "real" such thing and women would be ridiculed (or worse) if she did complain. Sex is not meant to be enjoyed by the woman in many cultures (i.e. female circumcision--can't think of propper term for it). US is actually one of THE most sexually expressive countries ANYWHERE. it's impossible to escape sex wherever you go, so in a sense children are taught in a very young age about sex from societal views etc. it's when parents don't address these views that can lead to confusion or naiveity. i agree with tim about the power thing. i've actually taken two classes about sexual abuse and perpetrators and the like and it really has nothing to do with sex. not speaking with your child about what is appropriate interaction etc from family members, trusted leaders etc can lead to "ashamed" victims who later will potentially "abuse" (not necessarily abuse)leads to problems. this, i agree with. again, it all goes back to respect for self and others...as do most issues in our society...or lack of respect i should say.

And you also will find that the Netherlands do have a relatively (very) high rate of rape especially during their war times just a few years ago. But it is continuing with the training of new youth militias, and the ingrained hatred passed down into new generations. in some cases, i remember hearing about, family members were even forced to rape the women in their families, and youths training for militias were raped and raping in very high rates.

what an uplifting topic! it makes me never want to let my daughter do anything EVER! :) kidding.

4:02 PM  
Blogger Bleach n Sheets said...

Pointing out that the views are shared by the majority does not invalidate them if you like where these views have our society today.

"Early sexual experience"...I never said anything about a child participating in sex at an early age. I don't think telling them it is fun would lead to anymore early sexual experiences that telling them it is not allowed. Matter of fact, I think the exact opposite would be true. Kids always want to do what is "only for adults" or "forbidden to them".

The stat you quote about rape and the point you make doesn't support one another, but just in case they did, check out this website.. It states that one in four college women are raped. I doubt it is by poor people hanging around the college.

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~ad361896/anne/cease/rapestatisticspage.html


America has the highest rape percentage per capita among any nation that reports rape. In countries where you argue rape is more prevelant, such as middle eastern countries, do you think they are more open or closed minded about sex early on? I know my guess.

Secondly, where do you all think the stereotypes of those who are raised very sheltered end up being the wildest ones came from. Such as A) Cathlolic girls and B) Preachers daughters. Did they all the sudden become sexaully promiscious because there parents would not shut up about how sex is OK and can be done as long as it is done responsibly. NO! They were taught that it is shameful and not to be talked about. When the childs experience then differs with everything they are taught, conflicting messages come up. I believe that it is these underlying conflicting messages about sex that have lead to all those factors you list for would be rapists. Especially the ones you highlighted.

Now, I agree for the most part that being open with your child on every topic is the best way to handle everything. Let them be able to talk to you about anything as it comes up. But most people are waiting too long. Or they wait and the child never brings it up so the parent doesn't.

The bottom line here is that it is a matter of individual opinion, which is what this blog was intended to be from the begining. Everyone stating their opinion on the matter. But I say, if you like where things are now with relation to sex, in our country, keep doing the same old things. If you do not like where things are, be open to new ideas.

Does anyone even know of any research saying how the lives turn out for people who are brought up in completely free households? Where sex discussed openly from as early as the child can rememeber? I know of none. Which means I have also never seen it come up as a statistic in anything negative, such as murderers, rapists or even teenage pregnancies. Food for thought.

11:19 AM  

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