Monday, July 17, 2006

Bush

I promise that I am not just one of those Bush haters, but I heard a statement from our president that has me questioning his reasoning. The quote was in regards to stem cell research. It was something to this effect:

"I do not condone the loss of life to save lives."

Does anyone else see how this quote might be contradictary to some other decisions this president has made?

32 Comments:

Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

ha ha. :)

was this the first time you questioned Bush's reasoning?


Bush's plans don't matter. All the scientists have to do is talk to Cartman to get their hands on some fetuses for their stem cells.

1:36 PM  
Blogger Bean said...

I dont condone... the... condemnation of the loss of lifes... for the... save of lives.

I love hearing him speak. Make me LOL.

4:09 PM  
Anonymous baltimore said...

stop questioning and go back to your daily life, bleach...he is obviously a far superior being than the rest of us, so who are we to question his so called "reasoning"?

12:22 PM  
Anonymous cow da don said...

hater

3:17 PM  
Blogger Bleach n Sheets said...

Way to intelligently make a point...bitch

3:55 PM  
Anonymous m3 said...

first, this stem cell research thing would happen a lot faster if the government didn't have its hands in it AT ALL. i.e., this entire debate is about government funds paying for private research. stop funding ALL private research, give me my money back, and i may choose to donate it to support stem cell research(/libertarianism)

secondly, though you may be right about bush's hypocrisy, the quote was quite a bit different. i assume you are talking about the speech he made at the ceremony where he vetoed the stem cell bill. what bush actually said was: This bill would support the taking of innocent human life in the hope of finding medical benefits for others. It crosses a moral boundary that our decent society needs to respect. So I vetoed it.
transcript of speech

9:40 AM  
Blogger Bleach n Sheets said...

I agree with you on the taxes, but it is pointless to debate that here because that is the way it is.

I am not referencing that quote. I am not sure which speech it was because I heard it briefly on NPR. It was however, almost word for word as I have presented it. I believe the word "Science" was in there somewhere.

As far as it happening a lot faster if the government wasnt involved, that is just not true. That is exactly how it is happening now. A lot of the major pharmecuetical companies will not get behind anything until the govt makes some serious investment. All the top people the stem cell field have been screaming that the government getting involved with funding would dramatically effect the speed in which we see results.

10:04 AM  
Anonymous cow da don said...

well it kinda looks that way cause u never say anything about any body else, its only bush, what about his speach to the naacp the first one he has done while in officeit was real good, i agree that he can say stupid sounding things but you cant argue results and he has had a lot of good things happen in office that dude gets no credit for......bitch

1:00 PM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

what exactly is "private research?"
do you mean "private sector research"? that isn't funded by the goverment. it is money that is reinvested into the company for research. I assume you mean not federally fund research in places like Universities. there is plenty of that money, but what that really does, is takes research that is done at the university level (what you might call "public" research) and find a way to make it profitable. in fact, a director of research at Eli Lilly that i heard a talk from said it takes 80 mil of research money to bring a single drug through feasibility. he also confirmed that the research and development model that they use is utterly dependant on research that is funded on the federal level.

he also told me to learn to spell.

without public research, research would be totally guided by what would be most profitable. not what tiny part of the puzzle fits to a much greater discovery (much later down the road sometimes).

for instance, i am working on a pharmasutical that stops promotion of new vasculature in the body so that tumors don't get the blood they need. i can't say what mechinism is down-regulated, but once apon a time, probably in the 70s, no one knew how the mechanism for new vasculature (angiogenesis) worked at all. it took years and multiple scientists to discover how it works at all. now, a pharmasutical company is standing on the shoulders of those scientists in order to make a drug that can help cancer patients.

stop federal research funding is a sure-fire way to NOT discover a cure for cancer. not to mention turn the university as a place of learning, discovery, and research paradime on it's head. Yes, America would truly be fucked without federal funding for research. write your senators!

i am sorry for the novel, but i feel very passionate about research, and the funding that is being sqashed ever since bush took office.

1:39 PM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

in the first paragraph, the "that" in this sentence:

there is plenty of that money,

is refurring to money for private sector research.

3:21 PM  
Anonymous baltimore said...

he has done a lot of good things in office that he doesn't get credit for?!? give me a list of those, do you count cutting off united states money to 3rd world family planning as one of those good ideas that had good results? or maybe deciding that it would be a good idea to invade a country on false pretenses, while lying straightfaced to the citizens that elected him in the minority to begin with? that is a great idea, it really endears the populace to you, ya know? great fuckin ideas!

3:58 PM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

you said it baltimore. i understand that alot of republicans want to defend him to do all that partisan shit, but come on! why don't you just bring up old GOOD republican presidents that aren't morons. Bush sr, and ronald reagan. I can stand behind those guys (for the most part).

btw, while he did pander to the NAACP about his commitment to end poverty, something that Bush didn't mention was that the amount of people living in poverty has increased every year since he took office.

4:13 PM  
Blogger tschy said...

I am going to write my senator and suggest the following. I think we should hold a random drawing and snatch the life of one out of every million people and use them for scientific research each year. After all, life is life, and if we’re willing to destroy life at its earliest stage, then why not go ahead and destroy it at an advanced stage. I guess instead of random, we could pick off homeless folks, or maybe people that are mentally incapacitated and have no family. Just because no one “wants” the life shouldn’t matter, should it?

In order to call something hypocrisy, you have to understand the context. You also have to understand the Constitution. There is a big difference in both between choosing to use embryonic stem cells for scientific research and sending in troops to protect the USA. I am no constitutional expert, but defending the country is either the #1 priority, or a top 5 responsibility of the President. I don’t think there is any direct Constitutional basis that says the US Government (read this as you, me, your parents and your neighbor) must fund scientific research intended to lengthen people’s lives. Then again, whole Bird Flu thing might thwart that argument? No, I don’t think so…because Bird Flu doesn’t prevent the lengthening of our life, it theoretically threatens the existence of the life itself.

Then comes the notion that it is the responsibility of the federal government to improve the lives of the citizens. Which conceptually I think is a major cause for the lack of personal responsibility in our country. There are a billions of dollars spent on things that I like, but that the federal government should not be doing:
• running the post-office (see previous blog of mine)
• helping build nice parks along the Ohio River
• $3M for animal waste management research (compliments of Mitch McConnell)
• $500K for the Arctic Winter games in Alaska
• $13,500,000 for the International Fund for Ireland, which helped finance the World Toilet Summit
• $6,435,000 for wood utilization research
• $1,000,000 for the Waterfree Urinal Conservation Initiative
• $500,000 for the Sparta Teapot Museum in Sparta, N.C.
• For about $29,000,000,000 in other crap from nearly 10,000 stupid projects, go here http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reports_pigbook2006#criteria

They might make someone’s life better, but it sure pisses me off that it is likely that if you took all of the taxes that I’ve paid thus far in my life, I probably would not have yet paid for the all important Waterfree Urinal Conservation Initiative. I think I’m going to scream!

10:17 AM  
Blogger tschy said...

Baltimore – if you want to pay for third world family planning, go right ahead. I’m sure you can find a great charity to donate to. But please keep your nose out of my wallet. I work hard for my money and don’t need people like you deciding how I should spend it. And while you are at it, climb back up your big fucking oak tree and keep counting those hanging chads that your still pissed about. I think you have a few million left to count.

10:21 AM  
Blogger tschy said...

Can anyone tell me what the definition of poverty is? And what percentage of people living in poverty have cable TV, cell phones and DVD players?

10:53 AM  
Anonymous baltimore said...

tschy, i was rebutting cow. but, afterall, it does not make one bit of difference who the president is. the decisions that get made will get made one way or another. and as far as third world family planning goes, we will all pay for that in one way or another. it comes in the form of taxes on us citizens to pay for medical care for aliens(legal or not). it comes in the amount of food we send to 3rd world countries because the population is living below the poverty line and they have used all the arable land (and destroyed it). so we'll go ahead and let them spread aids & hiv too, hows that sound. we'll only do that so my taxes can pay for the drugs that we give those countries for free. so i'll pay for a solution (however partial of one it may bea) and you can go ahead and pay for the problems that stem from it. i'll stay in my big fucking oak tree and until you start to see a bit of sense, that where i'll fucking be. and by the way, you don't decide where you spend your money anyway, the gov spends it where they want to, and there is not a goddamn thing you or i can do about it. i work hard for mine too, and the taxes come out no matter what, did you seriously miss that extra 4 cents or whatever it was, before they took the funding for that away? gimme a fuckin break.

11:03 AM  
Anonymous baltimore said...

so, as you can see, that shit affects all of us in one way or another. get your hand out from in front of your face and start lookin around.

11:13 AM  
Blogger tschy said...

1) There is something that you and I can do about it…vote. Unfortunately, there are too many people like you that think there is nothing you can do. Write your senator, your representative, your governor, your state senator or rep, your mayor – show up at a zoning commission meeting, or a city council meeting. Hell, I don’t even care if you argue 100% opposite of what I argue or think, at least you would be involved in the process.
2) I don’t know about you, but I am pretty sure that I determine how I am going to spend the majority of the money that I earn. The one thing that I do know is that in the past 25 years, democrats generally raise taxes and republicans generally lower taxes.
3) And as far as third world family planning goes, I’ll take my chances and let other sovereign countries take care of themselves a little more. And let the charities and religious organization send the food, drugs, etc… The money that the Bill Gates Foundation spends to combat HIV is going to work 100 times better than what our or any other government can do. Let private enterprise do it’s thing.

12:11 PM  
Anonymous baltimore said...

so you tell me that i think there's nothing i can do about it, and you say to let someone else do it? what's the difference, if we had more people like you, then nothing would get done because everyone would just let someone else take care of it.
i vote so my voice is theoretically heard, but i also know that we would be at war now whether you or i voted.

this started out only because i was trying to get somethingout of cow, and then you and i got into it. i have my opinions and you have yours, i respect yours but i value mine, although i am open to new ideas when there is a reasonable amount of sense involved. fuck bush, fuck family planning, fuck stem cells. everyone needs to live the life they have, me included. you can never speak to someone about politics without one or another getting heated i need a beer

12:36 PM  
Blogger fooiemcgoo said...

i thought we were talking about federally funded stem cell research.

after some introspection and a very long talk with some colleages here, I have decided that I am very much undecided about stem cell research. It is a very difficult issue that does not have clear defintions at all. when science and ethics meet, things get difficult.

I was flippant about it before and goading Bush b/c i hate him so much.

as for tschy and balitmore, i think we should calm down a little. there is no need for name calling and the like. I think you both have good ideas. but tschy is right, you shouldn't have such a cavilier attitude about your role in public policy. Everyone does have a say, and the more people that think we don't, the less say we have.


how is this for a "deep" conversation Bleach? you wanted one right?

12:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

here i am baby come and get me


look it has been said give me my money so i can help poor people if i want to but i dont i wanna help me and my family, anyone who wants to end aids is commendable but dont touch me! when does basic nature kick in and let strong survive if people are too anything (poor,weak,scared, ugly, etc)to flee a bad situation then that is on them if i lived where the water was bad, no food ,repressive people, i would pack what little i had and bounce if i am gonna die anyway then at least i could look for better befor i do. when i grew up in AZ we were on welfare got gov assit. health care and housing we still had a microwave, frige, ac, a nintendo, so when poverty tells you its not so bad belive us, if it wernt true why would there be so many of us. now i dont want to put people like my mom up on my dime, let churches or charities pay cause that money comes from someone who gives a damn, and we aint been attacked in almost 5 years dispite trys, unemployment lowest in 20 years and thats just the tip of the iceburg i dont think that bush is the bomb but when i hear people spout there dailyshow mentality, most of the people that i hear bash bush i are people that i already thought were dumdasses who i would do the oppisite of in every other situation but now you want me to pick the same leader of the free world as you well i say to you fuck that!

4:20 PM  
Anonymous cow da don said...

anonymous is no other than me

4:25 PM  
Anonymous baltimore said...

trust me, i am not of the daily show mentality. i disagree with bleeding heart liberals as much as i do hard line conservatives. i did not make a case to end aids, there are educational needs that should be considered- and the people in those countries do not have the resources to be educated about those types of things- americans do. i agree that my needs come first, if theres a pork chop there and i am starving fuck you and the ethiopian, i am going to eat it. heres a quote, "with great power comes great responsibility". think about it, we live in the greatest country in the world, hands down, whether bush, clinton, or snoopy is the president. we have freedom to have these discussions, and we have the power to enlighten others. ideas and education are some things that shouldn't be hoarded in your moms basement. they should be shared, there is never a shortage of ideas and dreams, get them out there. if you want to sit at home with your paychecks and ignore the world around you, thats cool, its your perogative, i have no right to say that you are wrong. i think that i can voice my opinion though, that we are all a part of this planet, and i nthe end you can't take anything with you, so why not make it the best place we can while we are here? the mine mine mine mentality is one of americas flaws. i think that is the reason that so many other countries disagree with america. i know that i am as guilty as you are of wanting the money i work for in my pocket, to have nice stuff, to be comfortable and full. none of us here would be where we are today if someone hadn't taken the time to make sure we could read, that we knew right from wrong, or to put a condom on. it was given to us, so why not give some back?
alright tschy and cow go ahead and pile on, call me a hippie or a pussy, whatever makes you guys feel better. all i've been sayin this entire time is to really look around, trust i don't know shit about shit, but i want to.

10:35 PM  
Anonymous baltimore said...

no hard feelings ya'll. it is nice to see some fervor and passion about some things that affect us. bleach is right we should lock ourselves in a room and solve the world's problems. ideas are a gift...

11:11 PM  
Anonymous m3 said...

when you see something that needs to be done (e.g. educating and/or feeding poverty stricken africans), and it's too big to do yourself, it's easy to make the mistake of thinking that the federal government should take care of it. but the federal government has no business educating or feeding foreigners.

it may sound cruel, but that's simply not what the federal government is for. if you want to know what the federal government is for, read the U.S. Constitution

please note, i'm not saying it's OK to knowingly let someone else starve to death while you sit on your wallet. go ahead - donate to a charity, adopt an ethiopian, whatever, but let me decide how to spend my own damn money.

btw, fooiemcgoo, by 'private research' i was referring to research conducted in non-government-owned laboratories by non-government employees.

12:14 AM  
Anonymous cow da don said...

America is the greatest, but thats because the choices we have already made, if other countrys disagree then let them talk to us about our probs when people are floating in on a car door just to touch thier golden land. if americans had so many flaws then why do we rule the world, because we have very few flaws, other countrys may specialize in a few things here or there,like economy, healthcare, poverty, but people dont mass migrate to those places do they

9:44 AM  
Anonymous cow da don said...

i love this shit

9:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

in response to bleach's actual post, the president saying that he doesn't condone the loss of life to save lives; 3000 of our troops have died in the middle east to defend democracy for the other 300 million of us in america. this is contradictory, no matter what side of the fence you are on. he willingly sent us to war, knowing that our troops would die. i support our troops, but not the war. sorry

11:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

your against the war cause your uninformed and gay

10:34 AM  
Anonymous cow da don said...

hey bleach do you like cds or tapes better?

4:14 PM  
Blogger Bleach n Sheets said...

cds

5:14 PM  
Anonymous cow the don said...

well cd nuts in yo mouf

7:10 PM  

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